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Upper bounds for conference users

Posted by cbbs70a on Sat, 12/26/2009

All;
Has anyone used the conference manager for very large numbers of callers? Is it even possible to have say 500 (SIP) callers call in and listen ( only ) to a conference? I really like Thirdlanes flash application. If it can not do that large a number now, what do I need to do to get it up there ( or close to that number ). Any insight at all would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
FSD


Submitted by eeman on Sun, 12/27/2009 Permalink

i don't even think meetme would work with that many users. lets assume there is no transcoding and you're using ulaw the entire time (and not recording the call). For a ulaw conference you're looking at ~40Mbps of internet connectivity and for g729 (assuming _everyone_ was g729) you're still looking at ~15Mbps and substantially more cpu load. Unlike a call, all meetme call legs are transcoded into slinear and back into the connecting codec. I do not believe that the TC400 transcoder card (120 trancodes btw) is stackable with multiple cards to reach 500. So lets assume:

  • customer has OC3 to the internet on a reliable backbone (no cogent or other schwag tiers)
  • customer installed a digium card for timing source for accuracy so no timing slips under heavy load perhaps a 1port T1 card (wct122p perhaps?)
  • Intel Xeon E5530 processor

I can think of a few more hardware tricks. Though if your looking at a purely 1-way broadcast, other software might have a lesser demand on resources (like some shoutcast streaming service). I know a guy that used to work for voxitas who set up some sort of church conference type service so people can call in and listen to their church services live. I believe that was in excess of the capacity you're looking for. He is available for private consulting if youre interested.

Submitted by cbbs70a on Sun, 12/27/2009 Permalink

As usual, I bow before your encyclopedic knowledge. Putting the whole thing in a real hosting center, not the $9.99/mo all you can eat crap that is so prevalent today is easy enough to do. So is using a Digium card. I already expected to have to do both. If your guy could, it would be a great help to speak with him. I'm at fsd (at) voipbusiness.us. The last thing I want to do is promise someone a solution and then later on find out that there is not a solution.
Thanks
FSD

Submitted by cbbs70a on Wed, 12/30/2009 Permalink

Looking back at my original assumptions, is there really a benefit to using a Digium card vs. using ztdummy, or is any timing source sufficient? Some people have suggested that having the card is better because ztdummy can miss ticks so that over time, things get progressively worse. The other option is to use something called zaprtc which is based on RTAI. Does anyone have any real life experiences? I'm also looking at an addon called app_konference which does not require a timing source and its developers claim can support upwards of 1200 users on a single server. They claim they were able to go from 500 users using meetme to 1200 users using app_konference. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that they initially had 500 users using meetme.
Thanks
FSD

Submitted by eeman on Wed, 12/30/2009 Permalink

even on an unloaded box I had a customer report back

Wow, found an old TDM card and put it in.
Following results:
[root@ip-pbx3 ~]# dahdi_test
Opened pseudo dahdi interface, measuring accuracy...
99.999% 99.995% 100.000% 100.000% 100.000% 100.000% 100.000% 100.000%
100.000% 99.996% 100.000% 100.000% 99.999% 100.000% 100.000% 100.000%
99.999% 99.997% 100.000% 99.999% 100.000% 99.999% 100.000% 100.000%
99.999% 99.998%
--- Results after 26 passes ---
Best: 100.000 -- Worst: 99.995 -- Average: 99.999202, Difference: 99.999364
[root@ip-pbx3 ~]#
Ill run the test longer but what a difference, average before was 99.458

I believe that the more load you put on a dummy timing source, the more likely you'd start seeing timing slips.

Submitted by eeman on Wed, 12/30/2009 Permalink

let me know if app_konference worked for you. Obviously there wont be a graphical management; though in reality how can one really graphically control 1200 users on a single screen? Ever try to even work in a directory with 1200 files? Thats a huge number just from a UI perspective nevermind a programming one :)